question to those who did not have pain relief medication/drugs in birth

[Abi]

Hi all,

many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.

Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

many thanks again!

[Kat]

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
many thanks again!

After doing research and seeing the effects on the baby and the nursing
relationship due to some of the drugs I would never use pain relief. I
didn't with the first one and I will definitely do it with the second one
and any after:-) I also made sure that I had the appropriate support, a
doula, my husband and my best friend were there. The three of them made
the experience very positive and as enjoyable birth can be with or without
drugs. I will never regret my decision, and it felt more like an
accomplishment than I think it would have otherwise. I just personally
believe our bodies are made for doing this and so we should trust in them.
Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and #2 EDD 02/01/04

[Ericka Kammerer]

Post by Abi
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

Didn't have drugs and didn't regret not having drugs,
so I don't quite fit your criteria, but I wanted to mention
a few things:

1) I think it would be quite rare for someone to not have
drugs and regret it under normal circumstances. Either
you're unmedicated and reasonably happy with the situation,
or you're not happy with it. If you're not happy with
the situation, you will likely *do* something about that!
Even if you're at home, you can choose to go to the
hospital for drugs. The only reason I can think of
that one would go unmedicated and regret it would be
if you wanted drugs and they were unavailable. This
rarely happens, though it is possible (e.g., it's
a small hospital and when you want an epidural the
anesthesiologist is busy with someone else, or you
have some contraindication for an epidural, or you
decide you want drugs too late for them to get
administered before you have the baby).

2) While I'm sure there must be someone out there, I
don't think I've ever heard of anyone who planned
an unmedicated birth, had one, and regretted it.
The overwhelming majority of women who have successful
homebirths go on to choose homebirth again
(circumstances permitting).

I hear you struggling with the issue of whether or not
you want an unmedicated birth, but I wonder why you're
struggling with this? It sounds like you really want
at least the possibility of an unmedicated birth, so
why not just prepare and plan for an unmedicated birth
to give you your best chance at getting what you want,
and then change your mind if it seems warranted at
the time? You can virtually *always* get drugs if
you want them, even if you plan a homebirth. You'll
just have to transport to the hospital in that case,
but that's hardly the end of the earth. After all,
if you plan a hospital birth, you'll still have to
"transport" to the hospital at some point during your
labor ;-)

There really isn't any way to know in advance
what your labor will be like. With a first baby, there
is a higher chance that your labor will be really long,
which can sometimes lead to exhaustion and an inability
to cope with pain (or not--my first labor was 45 hours
long and I was just fine without drugs). Since you
can't know what your labor will be like, you just have
to decide how you want to approach things to maximize
the odds that you'll get what you want. You can plan
for the worst case scenario, but that will nearly
guarantee that you won't have an unmedicated birth.
But what's the downside of planning for the better
case scenario? Since it's very unlikely you'll run
into problems getting drugs if you want them, what's
the downside of making decisions that maximize the
likelihood of going without drugs? If you're worried
about feeling disappointed or having others say, "I
told you so," just don't tell others what you're planning
and give yourself permissing to make the choices you
feel you need while in labor ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

[KD]

Post by Ericka Kammerer

Post by Abi
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

Didn't have drugs and didn't regret not having drugs,
so I don't quite fit your criteria, but I wanted to mention
1) I think it would be quite rare for someone to not have
drugs and regret it under normal circumstances. Either
you're unmedicated and reasonably happy with the situation,
or you're not happy with it. If you're not happy with
the situation, you will likely *do* something about that!
Even if you're at home, you can choose to go to the
hospital for drugs. The only reason I can think of
that one would go unmedicated and regret it would be
if you wanted drugs and they were unavailable. This
rarely happens, though it is possible (e.g., it's
a small hospital and when you want an epidural the
anesthesiologist is busy with someone else, or you
have some contraindication for an epidural, or you
decide you want drugs too late for them to get
administered before you have the baby).

I agree. This is my experience:

I was in the hospital, in labor, in *major* pain, (but normal labor
pain afaik) with my first. I had been in hard labor for about 2 hours
and was completely ignoring all the relaxation techniques I should
have been using. I decided OK, I need some pain meds, even though I
had planned no drugs. But the midwife told me it was too late - we
were almost there! Fortunately, it was over fairy quickly after that
(another hour or hour and a half), but at the time I was really
worried about how much worse it would get since I was in such pain
already. Fortunately, that was as bad as it got and I am SO glad that
I didn't have the pain meds after all. It really was a fairly quick,
uncomplicated labor and delivery and I made it through just fine. I
don't regret for a minute not having them, even though I did for a
little while during the heat of the moment.

With my second, I concentrated on the relaxation and planned no drugs
from the start. I was never even tempted to take a pain med that time
(again, a fairly quick and uncomplicated labor and delivery). I'm
sure part of the reason the 2nd was easier was that I knew what to
expect and my body knew what to expect, but I really think one of the
main factors was the relaxation. With my first I fought every
contraction, tensing every muscle in my body. With my second, a
contraction came on and I dropped where I was and relaxed every muscle
in my body and let my body do it what wanted. It made a world of
difference! I think if it's a labor/delivery without complications,
just knowing how to relax yourself and let your body do what it needs
to do (and help it along) is a must.

Post by Ericka Kammerer
2) While I'm sure there must be someone out there, I
don't think I've ever heard of anyone who planned
an unmedicated birth, had one, and regretted it.
The overwhelming majority of women who have successful
homebirths go on to choose homebirth again
(circumstances permitting).
I hear you struggling with the issue of whether or not
you want an unmedicated birth, but I wonder why you're
struggling with this? It sounds like you really want
at least the possibility of an unmedicated birth, so
why not just prepare and plan for an unmedicated birth
to give you your best chance at getting what you want,
and then change your mind if it seems warranted at
the time? You can virtually *always* get drugs if
you want them, even if you plan a homebirth. You'll
just have to transport to the hospital in that case,
but that's hardly the end of the earth. After all,
if you plan a hospital birth, you'll still have to
"transport" to the hospital at some point during your
labor ;-)
There really isn't any way to know in advance
what your labor will be like. With a first baby, there
is a higher chance that your labor will be really long,
which can sometimes lead to exhaustion and an inability
to cope with pain (or not--my first labor was 45 hours
long and I was just fine without drugs). Since you
can't know what your labor will be like, you just have
to decide how you want to approach things to maximize
the odds that you'll get what you want. You can plan
for the worst case scenario, but that will nearly
guarantee that you won't have an unmedicated birth.
But what's the downside of planning for the better
case scenario? Since it's very unlikely you'll run
into problems getting drugs if you want them, what's
the downside of making decisions that maximize the
likelihood of going without drugs? If you're worried
about feeling disappointed or having others say, "I
told you so," just don't tell others what you're planning
and give yourself permissing to make the choices you
feel you need while in labor ;-)
Best wishes,
Ericka

[toypup]

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

I want to do it all again, not because I enjoy pain, but I felt more in
control. Just felt bad that I didn't get that high afterwards that everyone
talks about. Maybe I'll get it this time.

[cara]

Post by toypup

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

I want to do it all again, not because I enjoy pain, but I felt more in
control. Just felt bad that I didn't get that high afterwards that everyone
talks about. Maybe I'll get it this time.

I had a bit of the opposite feeling, I felt quite 'out of control', but
primarily because I had *expected* that I would get the epidural and had
anticipated getting it throughout the pregnancy, but things went so fast and
furiously in my labor that there was no time. It seemed to me like chaos in
there with nurses running around and I had a hard time grasping that the baby
was almost there (but there again, I didn't really feel the contractions as
really painful until I was already in transition), so part of it was feeling
confused that my expectation of labor was turning out totally different. With
#2 I'm going to play it by ear, I'm not going to expect it, but I'm not going to
rule it out either when the time comes. I'm just not dead set either way, I'd
just like to have a more relaxed delivery.

cara

[Circe]

Post by toypup
Just felt bad that I didn't get that high afterwards that everyone
talks about. Maybe I'll get it this time.

I didn't get the high with #3. I attribute that in part to how quick that
labor went relative to the one where I got the fantastic high: I figure I
had a lot more endorphins floating around in my system after 28 hours of
labor than after 3h50m!
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[Tatjana Pantic]

Post by Circe

Post by toypup
Just felt bad that I didn't get that high afterwards that everyone
talks about. Maybe I'll get it this time.

I didn't get the high with #3. I attribute that in part to how quick that
labor went relative to the one where I got the fantastic high: I figure I
had a lot more endorphins floating around in my system after 28 hours of
labor than after 3h50m!

I was in active labor for about 7 hours with my first and 4 hours with
my second (both times I had about 24 hours of contractions before
that) and I never felt any high after birth :-( Both times I just
wanted to go to sleep right away. Maybe I'm just weird :-) I was
especially sorry I didn't feel so good after my second birth
(beautiful experience, in a freestanding birth center), but that may
have had something to do with very heavy bleeding afterwards...or not
:-)

--

Tanja

Mommy to Tamara (27 Dec 1998) and
Stefan (19 May 2003)

[Circe]

Post by Abi
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

I've had one medicated (pitocin induction, Stadol, epidural) birth and two
unmedicated births. The only decision I've ever regretted was the decision
to have the epidural during the first birth. It messed up my ability to
push, resulting in an episiotomy and ventouse use, and left me immobile for
hours after my baby was born. I hated that. After I had my second baby, I
was on such a fantastic endorphin high that I was telling my husband I
wanted to do it again within minutes of her birth. I would never, ever go
into a birth planning to have pain relief medication, though I am aware that
there are certain circumstances under which I might decide I needed it
(perhaps prolonged back labor that was not only painful but exhausting).
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[Carolyn Jean Fairman]

Post by Circe

Post by Abi
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

I've had one medicated (pitocin induction, Stadol, epidural) birth and two
unmedicated births. The only decision I've ever regretted was the decision
to have the epidural during the first birth. It messed up my ability to
push, resulting in an episiotomy and ventouse use, and left me immobile for
hours after my baby was born. I hated that. After I had my second baby, I
was on such a fantastic endorphin high that I was telling my husband I
wanted to do it again within minutes of her birth. I would never, ever go
into a birth planning to have pain relief medication, though I am aware that
there are certain circumstances under which I might decide I needed it
(perhaps prolonged back labor that was not only painful but exhausting).

My first birth was unmedicated. I asked for an epidural at some
point, in part because they forced me to stay on the monitors and I
couldn't get comfortable. In the shower it hurt, sure, but it wasn't
bad. Walking around felt good and I could sit in a chair and my dh
rub my belly or back, and again it hurt but it wasn't bad. I'm glad I
managed as long as I did because I was ready to push before I could
really submit to getting the epidural (twice I sent the
anestesiologist away!). I will never use stadol. I don't react well
and plus I've read all these birth stories where the woman got stadol
and felt spaced out and *still* in pain, plus they were throwing up.

I do somewhat regret *asking* for the epidural though because the
focus of the nurse and the midwife shifted from support (though
honestly they didn't do jack to help me!) to fitting me into the usual
routine. I had to go back in the IV to get fluids in case my blood
pressure dropped (common side effect) and yet I do recall sneaking off
to the shower for 20 or 30 minutes with the IV in. It make all those
contractions harder because I wasn't focusing on getting through them,
on how well I was actually doing, and on techniques for improving the
pain, such as moving around more.

It must have been transition, so next time I plan to go unmedicted and
hopefully be more aware that indeeed transition doesn't last forever,
and will end, and I can get through it.

I'm at increased risk for back labor/posterior baby because the
ultrasound showed the placenta in front, and I am concerned about
prolonged back labor being even more painful and lasting a lot longer
than just transition. Apparently a significant portion of c sections
for failure to progress show a posterior facing baby.

By not getting an epidural I can move around using positions to try
and turn the baby. I'll see how labor goes, but I am definitely
planning not to have drugs depsite the likelihood of back labor and
even put it in all bold caps in the birth plan (not to offer them is
in bold caps, if I want them I'll ask).

Carolyn

[Circe]

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman
I'm at increased risk for back labor/posterior baby because the
ultrasound showed the placenta in front,

I really wouldn't worry about this too much if I were you. My placenta with
#3 was anterior and I didn't have a stitch of back labor.

I know it's common wisdom that babies tend to face the placenta and
therefore the baby is more likely to be posterior if the placenta is
anterior, but my midwife told me that, in her experience, babies' tendency
to be posterior has more to do with the geometry of the mother's pelvis than
where the placenta is. IOW, she tended to see more women who'd already had
posterior babies have subsequent posterior babies than to see women who'd
already had anterior babies have a posterior baby based on the position of
the placenta.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[Hillary Israeli]

In <***@posting.google.com>,
Abi <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

*Hi all,
*
*many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
*vs hospital birth.
*
*Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
*(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
*/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
*so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
*(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
*birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

There was about a two to three minute period during the time just before
my daughter was born, during which I SERIOUSLY regretted not having pain
medication. Then she was born and I was SO HAPPY I hadn't had the pain
medication I can not even tell you how happy.

I had an epidural with my son. It was fine. But my recovery after his
birth was much much worse than my recovery after my daughter's
(unmedicated) birth, and I attribute some of that to the drug situation.

[C&J]

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
many thanks again!

I didn't have anything with my last 2 boys, it was all natural. I went into
labor all naturally and gave birth all naturally. I tore from one end to
the other all naturally. I do not want to or care to go through the Natural
birth again. I did not feel as if I was in control the pain was in control
of me. I definitly would rather have an episiotomy then tear the way I did.
For me recovering from an episiotomy is much easier than recovering from a
tear. I told my husband I would so much rather go through 24 hours of labor
with drugs (like I did with my first) rather then go through 3 hours or 30
minutes of labor (like I did with my last 2) without anything. The funny
thing is, is that when family and friends here me say that they can't
believe it because I seem to have a high tolerance for pain. I have played
fastpitch softball ever since I was 5 til present and with broken bones,
stitches, blows to the face, head, back, fluid build up in both knees you
name it I've never cried I never really thought it hurt all that much. But
labor! I hate it and I get sick to my stomach every time I think about
having to go through it again really soon. This is all me personally. I
have an aunt was like many of the ladys in here, giving birth at home and
doing it naturally. It's whatever you are comfortable with. I am just a
big wienie when it comes to giving birth.

Crystal

[Circe]

Post by C&J
I tore from one end to
the other all naturally. I do not want to or care to go through the Natural
birth again. I did not feel as if I was in control the pain was in control
of me. I definitly would rather have an episiotomy then tear the way I did.
For me recovering from an episiotomy is much easier than recovering from a
tear.

Well, you didn't tear because you had an unmedicated labor--most likely, you
tore because you had an incompetent caregiver who didn't know how to protect
and support your perineum. Although a stem-to-stern tear like this is
occasionally unavoidable, it is usually preventable with proper perineal
support and good coaching to slow pushing when the baby is crowning to allow
the perineum to stretch. The only way in which medication might have helped
is that you might have found it easier to push slowly during crowning if you
hadn't been feeling the urge to push so intensely.

I'll add that an episiotomy is unlikely to have improved the situation.
Cutting the perineum actually causes more serious tears than it prevents.
The reason this is so is the same as the reason it is easier to tear a piece
of fabric after you cut it with a pair of scissors than before.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[Carolyn Jean Fairman]

Post by Circe

I tore from one end to the other all naturally. I do not want to
or care to go through the Natural birth again. I did not feel as
if I was in control the pain was in control of me. I definitly
would rather have an episiotomy then tear the way I did. For me
recovering from an episiotomy is much easier than recovering from a
tear.

Well, you didn't tear because you had an unmedicated labor--most
likely, you tore because you had an incompetent caregiver who didn't
know how to protect and support your perineum. Although a
stem-to-stern tear like this is occasionally unavoidable, it is
usually preventable with proper perineal support and good coaching to
slow pushing when the baby is crowning to allow the perineum to
stretch. The only way in which medication might have helped is that
you might have found it easier to push slowly during crowning if you
hadn't been feeling the urge to push so intensely.

I had a midwife with my first -- no tears even and certainly not an
episiotomy. I remember warm oil and compresses. Now I may or may not
have a midwife and I may even end up with an OB. I mean, if I had any
problems, that would be great, but for a normal birth, I'm really
worried I'll get some snip happy OB who never heard about perineal
support.

Post by Circe
I'll add that an episiotomy is unlikely to have improved the
situation. Cutting the perineum actually causes more serious tears
than it prevents. The reason this is so is the same as the reason it
is easier to tear a piece of fabric after you cut it with a pair of
scissors than before.

She said the births were fast and furious (30 minutes?), so that means
less time to stretch. If the first birth resulted in an episiotomy
then that increases the risk of a subsequent tear along the scar
(anyone know if this is true for a scar from a spontaneous tear as
well?).

Carolyn

[C&J]

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman

Post by Circe

I tore from one end to the other all naturally. I do not want to
or care to go through the Natural birth again. I did not feel as
if I was in control the pain was in control of me. I definitly
would rather have an episiotomy then tear the way I did. For me
recovering from an episiotomy is much easier than recovering from a
tear.

Well, you didn't tear because you had an unmedicated labor--most
likely, you tore because you had an incompetent caregiver who didn't
know how to protect and support your perineum. Although a
stem-to-stern tear like this is occasionally unavoidable, it is
usually preventable with proper perineal support and good coaching to
slow pushing when the baby is crowning to allow the perineum to
stretch. The only way in which medication might have helped is that
you might have found it easier to push slowly during crowning if you
hadn't been feeling the urge to push so intensely.

I had a midwife with my first -- no tears even and certainly not an
episiotomy. I remember warm oil and compresses. Now I may or may not
have a midwife and I may even end up with an OB. I mean, if I had any
problems, that would be great, but for a normal birth, I'm really
worried I'll get some snip happy OB who never heard about perineal
support.

I had 2 different midwives with my last 2 kids. I prefer an OB to get snip
happy if he or she wants rather than a midwife that knows nothing :)

Crystal

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman

Post by Circe
I'll add that an episiotomy is unlikely to have improved the
situation. Cutting the perineum actually causes more serious tears
than it prevents. The reason this is so is the same as the reason it
is easier to tear a piece of fabric after you cut it with a pair of
scissors than before.

She said the births were fast and furious (30 minutes?), so that means
less time to stretch. If the first birth resulted in an episiotomy
then that increases the risk of a subsequent tear along the scar
(anyone know if this is true for a scar from a spontaneous tear as
well?).
Carolyn
--
Carolyn Fairman
http://www.stanford.edu/~cfairman/

[Carolyn Jean Fairman]

Post by C&J

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman
I had a midwife with my first -- no tears even and certainly not an
episiotomy. I remember warm oil and compresses. Now I may or may not
have a midwife and I may even end up with an OB. I mean, if I had any
problems, that would be great, but for a normal birth, I'm really
worried I'll get some snip happy OB who never heard about perineal
support.

I had 2 different midwives with my last 2 kids. I prefer an OB to get snip
happy if he or she wants rather than a midwife that knows nothing :)
Crystal

Did you have an OB who did do an episiotomy with your first?

The fast labors may have been the major reason for the tears,
especially if you started out getting cut with your first
delivery. (Not to say that midwifes can mess up or anything.)

How fast were they? Really 30 minutes? I'm hoping this labor is
quick, but I can pass on it being *that* quick. It sounds scary!


Carolyn

[C&J]

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman

Post by C&J

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman
I had a midwife with my first -- no tears even and certainly not an
episiotomy. I remember warm oil and compresses. Now I may or may not
have a midwife and I may even end up with an OB. I mean, if I had any
problems, that would be great, but for a normal birth, I'm really
worried I'll get some snip happy OB who never heard about perineal
support.

I had 2 different midwives with my last 2 kids. I prefer an OB to get snip
happy if he or she wants rather than a midwife that knows nothing :)
Crystal

Did you have an OB who did do an episiotomy with your first?

Yeah I had an OB with the first and I was in labor a little over 24 hours

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman
The fast labors may have been the major reason for the tears,
especially if you started out getting cut with your first
delivery. (Not to say that midwifes can mess up or anything.)
How fast were they? Really 30 minutes? I'm hoping this labor is
quick, but I can pass on it being *that* quick. It sounds scary!

My second I was in labor for 3 hours and my third was all in 30 min. I know
not all labors are the same but mine keep getting shorter and shorter. I
just don't know how much shorter I would be able to go. I will never make
to the hospital if this one is any shorter. I just hope for all green
lights :)

Crystal

Post by Carolyn Jean Fairman
Carolyn
--
Carolyn Fairman
http://www.stanford.edu/~cfairman/

[Magenta]

Lets see...
Six babies
two were au natural
four were epidural
All have grown up to be healthy with no side affects.

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
many thanks again!

[Nan]

Post by Magenta
Lets see...
Six babies
two were au natural
four were epidural
All have grown up to be healthy with no side affects.

Which did you prefer? The natural or epidurals?
I'm trying to decide how I want my labor to be managed.

tia!

Nan

[Jenrose]

Post by Nan

Post by Magenta
Lets see...
Six babies
two were au natural
four were epidural
All have grown up to be healthy with no side affects.

Which did you prefer? The natural or epidurals?
I'm trying to decide how I want my labor to be managed.

IMO, this is not something you can decide upon based on what other people
decided.

I know that for *me*, if I'd gotten meds when I was at my whiniest, I would
have missed feeling the best part. My mother said, "No, you're not taking
something to make you sleep, get up out of the bed and walk!"

Yay Mom!

My baby was born with 3 hours of her saying that...and I'd been at 3-4 1/2
cm for weeks...

Honestly, look at what makes you most comfortable with the process. What
makes you feel safest? Personally, the whole intervention thing scares me a
whole lot more than pain. Pain, I can handle. A c-section? I'd want to avoid
that at all costs and I know my best way of doing that is to avoid the other
interventions. But that's me.

Jenrose

[Nan]

Post by Jenrose

Post by Nan

Post by Magenta
Lets see...
Six babies
two were au natural
four were epidural
All have grown up to be healthy with no side affects.

Which did you prefer? The natural or epidurals?
I'm trying to decide how I want my labor to be managed.

IMO, this is not something you can decide upon based on what other people
decided.

I'm aware of this. I do, however, think people's experiences help to
educate you on the possible choices.

Post by Jenrose
I know that for *me*, if I'd gotten meds when I was at my whiniest, I would
have missed feeling the best part. My mother said, "No, you're not taking
something to make you sleep, get up out of the bed and walk!"
Yay Mom!
My baby was born with 3 hours of her saying that...and I'd been at 3-4 1/2
cm for weeks...
Honestly, look at what makes you most comfortable with the process. What
makes you feel safest? Personally, the whole intervention thing scares me a
whole lot more than pain. Pain, I can handle. A c-section? I'd want to avoid
that at all costs and I know my best way of doing that is to avoid the other
interventions. But that's me.
Jenrose

Thanks for the information.

Nan

[Magenta]

definetly epidural!!!

Post by Nan

Post by Magenta
Lets see...
Six babies
two were au natural
four were epidural
All have grown up to be healthy with no side affects.

Which did you prefer? The natural or epidurals?
I'm trying to decide how I want my labor to be managed.
tia!
Nan

[Nan]

Post by Magenta
definetly epidural!!!

Did you have any of the typical side effects, such as slowed labor,
longer recovery, etc?

Nan

Post by Magenta

Post by Nan

Post by Magenta
Lets see...
Six babies
two were au natural
four were epidural
All have grown up to be healthy with no side affects.

Which did you prefer? The natural or epidurals?
I'm trying to decide how I want my labor to be managed.
tia!
Nan

[Michelle J. Haines]

Post by Nan

Post by Magenta
definetly epidural!!!

Did you have any of the typical side effects, such as slowed labor,
longer recovery, etc?

I had a slowed labor every time with an epidural, plus incomplete
coverage and one that failed during a surgery. I wasn't really
happened going entirely without pain meds, either, but it was my
easiest recovery.

Michelle
Flutist

[Nan]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:31:08 -0700, Michelle J. Haines

Post by Michelle J. Haines

Post by Nan

Post by Magenta
definetly epidural!!!

Did you have any of the typical side effects, such as slowed labor,
longer recovery, etc?

I had a slowed labor every time with an epidural, plus incomplete
coverage and one that failed during a surgery. I wasn't really
happened going entirely without pain meds, either, but it was my
easiest recovery.
Michelle
Flutist

Thanks for your response. I'm still undecided, but think I may find
out my exact options from my doctor (having a vbac may have an
influence), then perhaps go in with the plan to go med free, but give
myself permission to ask if I feel I really need something.

Nan

[Mary]

Post by Nan
Thanks for your response. I'm still undecided, but think I may find
out my exact options from my doctor (having a vbac may have an
influence), then perhaps go in with the plan to go med free, but give
myself permission to ask if I feel I really need something.

That sounds like a good plan. I'd recommend also finding a doula you
really like, to help give you support and coping techniques while you're
in labor. And ask if your hospital will allow you to bring in a big
tub, like an aquadoula tub, for water labor (really awesome pain
relief). Hot showers or baths in your room are a good second to this.

Also, order a copy of the short paperback book _Mind Over Labor_ by Carl
someone (Jones?) from Amazon. Really neat visualizations and techniques
for going drug-free.

I had a natural birth and LOVED it, despite having a sucky long labor
from hell, and I wouldn't have changed a thing. I felt great afterward
-- we went home 6 hours after the baby was born. I would definitely
have ended up with an unnecessary c-section if I had gone for drugs
because of my baby's position and the way labor progressed. A great
experience, and I absolutely hope to go drug-free next time.

Mary S.
mom to the Sproutkin, 20 months

[Michelle J. Haines]

Post by Nan
Thanks for your response. I'm still undecided, but think I may find
out my exact options from my doctor (having a vbac may have an
influence), then perhaps go in with the plan to go med free, but give
myself permission to ask if I feel I really need something.

An epidural gives you a lot higher risk of needing Pitocin, which
would increase you rupture risk, so for a VBAC you may not want to go
the epidural route.

Michelle
Flutist

[Nan]

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:37:21 -0700, Michelle J. Haines

Post by Michelle J. Haines

Post by Nan
Thanks for your response. I'm still undecided, but think I may find
out my exact options from my doctor (having a vbac may have an
influence), then perhaps go in with the plan to go med free, but give
myself permission to ask if I feel I really need something.

An epidural gives you a lot higher risk of needing Pitocin, which
would increase you rupture risk, so for a VBAC you may not want to go
the epidural route.

That's what I've been reading. I'll need to research the different
med options my hospital will offer.

Nan

[Cathy Weeks]

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

May I ask why you are asking about this? I hear so many questions
like "did you regret having drugs?" etc...it's wierd to hear these
questions, when it's a much more rare sort of regret. I'm not
bothered or anything - just curious.

I guess I don't fit your criteria. I didn't have the drugs, and don't
regret it at all. I in fact know of someone who WANTED drugs, didn't
have them, and then was so surprised how wonderful it was.

The person in question is a friend of my stepson's mom. She was the
type who always said "wake me up when it's over!" And that's basically
what she did with her first two. The third baby was born very, very
quickly, in the car on the way to the hospital. She later told Teresa
"I can't believe how wonderful I felt - not tired, groggy or
anything." She went on to describe the endorphin high that happens
after a pain-free birth.

DURING labor, there were times when an epidural sounded REALLY nice,
even though the thought of a needle going into my back sounded really
creepy. But once it was over (8 hours of labor), I felt so good, glad
I hadn't needed anything, no groggyness or wierd numbness-wearing-off
sensations, having to wait around, etc. And glad that no drugs had
gotten to my baby. It doesn't seem to hurt the baby, but no drugs are
better.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

[Nan]

Post by Cathy Weeks
DURING labor, there were times when an epidural sounded REALLY nice,
even though the thought of a needle going into my back sounded really
creepy. But once it was over (8 hours of labor), I felt so good, glad
I hadn't needed anything, no groggyness or wierd numbness-wearing-off
sensations, having to wait around, etc. And glad that no drugs had
gotten to my baby. It doesn't seem to hurt the baby, but no drugs are
better.

When in labor with my ds (almost 20 years ago) I went med free until
the last few hours and received demerol in my IV. It did help me, as
I needed a rest (my labor was almost 23 hours), but I think there must
be a difference for women with shorter labors.
I'm crossing my fingers that this one will be *much* quicker.

Nan

[Hope]

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
many thanks again!

i have had one induced, drugged labour culminating in c-section, and
one unmedicated natural labour/birth. I only regret the mistakes I
made in managing my first labour, and the interventions I agreed to,
including pain relief. My natural labour was hard work and painful,
but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Hope

--
Riley 1993 c/s
Tara 2002 HBAC
proudly distributing Mayawrap Baby Slings Down Under
http://www.babyslings-australia.com

[Linz]

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

I had paracetamol, a hot bath, lots of back rubs from DH and gas and
air, and would gladly go that route again if I ever have another baby.
I also had a local anaesthetic and the gas and air for the episiotomy
and stitches but would prefer not to go there again!

[Akuvikate]

***@yahoo.co.uk (Abi) wrote in message news:<***@posting.google.com>...

I had no pain meds and was happy about it. I got to the hospital
fully dilated, so it was too late and at that point I knew I could
handle the rest anyway. Had I been told I was 3cm dilated and
probably had another 15 hours to go I don't know what I would have
done. I definitely plan to do my best to avoid pain meds next time(s)
as well.

MKP is very much dominated by the natural childbirth crowd. I have,
in real life, met women who somewhat fit the scenario you describe.
One had a very short labor and declined an epidural when she could
have gotten one. Later (when it was too late to have one placed) she
wished she had one, and she planned an epidural for her second birth.
I know 2 other women who planned natural births, both had very very
long labors, eventually got epidurals, and wished they'd gotten them
sooner. Just pointing out that such situations do exist.

Different strokes for different folks. I think the only universal
necessity for handling labor pain is to have an open mind both during
and after labor. I think it's well worth trying to shoot for a
natural birth, because there is a lot about it that's pretty darn
cool. At the same time, you don't want to psych yourself into a place
where you feel like a failure if you take pain meds. I think it's
best to just know that you can't know, set things up as best you can
for your ideal outcome, and then if you choose a path that deviates
from that accept that things turned out differently -- and that's OK.

Kate
and the Bug, June 8 2003

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
many thanks again!

[Abi]

Post by Akuvikate
I had no pain meds and was happy about it. I got to the hospital
fully dilated, so it was too late and at that point I knew I could
handle the rest anyway. Had I been told I was 3cm dilated and
probably had another 15 hours to go I don't know what I would have
done. I definitely plan to do my best to avoid pain meds next time(s)
as well.
MKP is very much dominated by the natural childbirth crowd. I have,
in real life, met women who somewhat fit the scenario you describe.
One had a very short labor and declined an epidural when she could
have gotten one. Later (when it was too late to have one placed) she
wished she had one, and she planned an epidural for her second birth.
I know 2 other women who planned natural births, both had very very
long labors, eventually got epidurals, and wished they'd gotten them
sooner. Just pointing out that such situations do exist.
Different strokes for different folks. I think the only universal
necessity for handling labor pain is to have an open mind both during
and after labor. I think it's well worth trying to shoot for a
natural birth, because there is a lot about it that's pretty darn
cool. At the same time, you don't want to psych yourself into a place
where you feel like a failure if you take pain meds. I think it's
best to just know that you can't know, set things up as best you can
for your ideal outcome, and then if you choose a path that deviates
from that accept that things turned out differently -- and that's OK.
Kate
and the Bug, June 8 2003

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
many thanks again!

Many thanks for all your advice. I want to have an active, drug free
natural birth at home, but it can't hurt to play devil's advocate and
see the other side of the fence...I know there are women who are
deeply in the hospital/epidural camp, and so I am interested to know
why they are. I will try to keep an open mind though, but I certainly
feel more reassured of my decision having seen what you have all said.
It's always good to understand the worst that can happen anyway.

[Larry McMahan]

Abi <***@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
: Hi all,

: many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
: vs hospital birth.

: Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
: (either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
: /medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
: so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
: (not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
: birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?

: many thanks again!

No, no, and no, and I think you are barking up the wrong tree!

What is mean is:

First, Monika did not use pain meds with either birth, would
not and never wanted to. As many of your other reponders note,
the is a great deal of satisfaction among women who go med free.

Second, the questions you should ask is if the women who had
pain meds in thier first birth regretted the decision, and
would have like to go med free (or did do so in a subsequent
birth). In this case you are going to find many more
dissatisfied women who changed thier plans for subsequent
births!

Ask the right qyestion if you want meaningfyul answers! :-)

Larry

[Abi]

Post by Larry McMahan
: Hi all,
: many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
: vs hospital birth.
: Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
: (either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
: /medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
: so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
: (not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
: birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
: many thanks again!
No, no, and no, and I think you are barking up the wrong tree!
First, Monika did not use pain meds with either birth, would
not and never wanted to. As many of your other reponders note,
the is a great deal of satisfaction among women who go med free.
Second, the questions you should ask is if the women who had
pain meds in thier first birth regretted the decision, and
would have like to go med free (or did do so in a subsequent
birth). In this case you are going to find many more
dissatisfied women who changed thier plans for subsequent
births!
Ask the right qyestion if you want meaningfyul answers! :-)
Larry

Thanks for all your advice - however, can anyone help on this piece of
info. I got from my midwife recently? She has worked in the job for 30
years and she said that in her experience, some 70% of first time
mothers who give birth at home end up being transferred to hospital,
and that some 70% of these tranferees do so in order to get an
epidural for the pain. What do you reckon to this? I cant believe
these figures are so high! I am still in favour of having my child at
home of course, but these stats. are somewhat alarming! The mmidwife
was still fairly encouraging about me having a home birth, so I dont
think she was trying to put me off. All she said was , just make sure
everyting is going normally throughout the pregnancy. I just want to
know why these women felt the desperate need to get an epidural at the
last minute, or is this fairly common? Thanks!

[Ericka Kammerer]

Post by Abi
Thanks for all your advice - however, can anyone help on this piece of
info. I got from my midwife recently? She has worked in the job for 30
years and she said that in her experience, some 70% of first time
mothers who give birth at home end up being transferred to hospital,
and that some 70% of these tranferees do so in order to get an
epidural for the pain. What do you reckon to this? I cant believe
these figures are so high! I am still in favour of having my child at
home of course, but these stats. are somewhat alarming! The mmidwife
was still fairly encouraging about me having a home birth, so I dont
think she was trying to put me off. All she said was , just make sure
everyting is going normally throughout the pregnancy. I just want to
know why these women felt the desperate need to get an epidural at the
last minute, or is this fairly common? Thanks!

Are you kidding me?! I see you're posting from the
UK, so maybe things are different there, but none of the
homebirth midwives I talked to had more than a 10 percent
transfer rate for first timers. Now, homebirth is a much
more "fringy" option in the US, so perhaps those who choose
it are that much more committed to it than in the UK?
I know the most common reason for transfer for first timers
in the US is exhaustion and pain due to a long labor, but
I don't know *any* homebirth midwife with that high a transfer
rate. And my first labor was very long, and I still stayed
at home ;-)
I think if you really want a homebirth, odds are you'll
be successful at it. On the other hand, I'd worry about your
midwife's ability to support you well through the birth if
she has that high a transfer rate. Seems to me that doesn't
bode well, since I believe the best predictor of future
behavior is past behavior.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Linz]

Post by Abi
Thanks for all your advice - however, can anyone help on this piece of
info. I got from my midwife recently? She has worked in the job for 30
years and she said that in her experience, some 70% of first time
mothers who give birth at home end up being transferred to hospital,
and that some 70% of these tranferees do so in order to get an
epidural for the pain. What do you reckon to this? I cant believe
these figures are so high! I am still in favour of having my child at
home of course, but these stats. are somewhat alarming! The mmidwife
was still fairly encouraging about me having a home birth, so I dont
think she was trying to put me off. All she said was , just make sure
everyting is going normally throughout the pregnancy. I just want to
know why these women felt the desperate need to get an epidural at the
last minute, or is this fairly common? Thanks!

I'm pretty sure the statistic I read was that 20% of first-timers who
book for a home birth end up transferring in, and most of those do so
for pain relief. Have a look at www.homebirth.org.uk as I think the
stats are there. It's not always that women transfer in for an
epidural - in my region midwives can't/don't give pethidine in home
births any more, so if I'd wanted anything stronger than gas & air
I'd've had to go in. As it was, I went in for "maternal exhaustion"
and required an assisted delivery, but I stuck with the gas & air.

As for feeling a desperate need at the last minute, what we don't know
is how long they'd been labouring at home, how far along they were
before they decided to transfer for extra pain relief or what kind of
labour they were having.

It's good that your midwife is still being encouraging, but I'd start
to wonder how come she's known so many first-time mums who've
transferred in. Is she giving subconscious messages to them that they
ought to go in?

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Post by Abi
I got from my midwife recently? She has worked in the job for 30
years and she said that in her experience, some 70% of first time
mothers who give birth at home end up being transferred to hospital,
and that some 70% of these tranferees do so in order to get an
epidural for the pain.

Don't use her as your birth attendant, or you'll be in that
70%, too. The birth center we'd planned to use had a 10%
transport rate (which was maybe 15% for first-timers). The
homebirth midwife we actually used had 3 transports in the
last 3 years (and I'd guess delivered 50+ babies a year),
none of which were for pain.

Post by Abi
I just want to
know why these women felt the desperate need to get an epidural at the
last minute, or is this fairly common?

After about 12 hours of labor and no significant progress,
the epidural looked good to me. I hurt, but more
importantly, I was tired and couldn't sleep. I stuck it
out, and had a great unmedicated birth (16 hours later).

Phoebe :)

[Larry McMahan]

Abi <***@yahoo.co.uk> writes:

: Thanks for all your advice - however, can anyone help on this piece of
: info. I got from my midwife recently? She has worked in the job for 30
: years and she said that in her experience, some 70% of first time
: mothers who give birth at home end up being transferred to hospital,
: and that some 70% of these tranferees do so in order to get an
: epidural for the pain. What do you reckon to this?

OK. You are in the UK, and I am in the US. That may affect some of what
I am about to say...

I am surprised about the 70% transferring to the hospital. I believe with
our midwife it was about 10 %. There could be two explanations (other than
the midwife having bad statistics).
1. The midwives in the UK may "recommend" transferring much more quickly
than midwives elsewhere.
2. The culture in the UK may condition women to request it quicker.
Who knows?

As for your second statistic, I would probably agree with that one, most
women who tranfer do so for the epidural, but it is usually after a
fairly long labor at home during which she has become exhausted. It
is really more the exhaustion than pain that is driving it. This can
be alleviated by a really skilled midwife who can help a woman to rest
effectively while she labors. (We had some experience with this when
Monika labored off and on for 60 hours over a 3 day period with our
first. It we had not followed our midwife's advice, we would have
ended up in the hospital. Guaranteed!

The good news here is that women are rarely transferred because of a
time critical emergency.

That said, there are a LOT of things you can to to make yourself
knowledgable enough to reduce the chance of transfer.

1. Do you have your choice of midwife, or do you have to take whoever
is assigned to you? If you have a choice make sure it is someone
who you are in sync with.

2. How supportive is your husband? Women who have supportive husbands
are much more successful with a home birth.

3. How knowledgable are you about what constitutes an emergency and
what does not. Read Henci Goer's book "The Thinking Woman's Guide to
a Better Birth."

4. How knowledbable is your husband. Educate him now so that he can
effectively advocate for you when push come to shove (so to speak :-).

Good luck,
Larry

[p***@gmail.com]

Hi I didn't I used a natural labor pain relief and it
http://www.natural-labour-relief.com

Post by Abi
Hi all,
many thanks to those who answered my previous question on home births
vs hospital birth.
Can I just pose this question to those people who have given birth
(either at home or hospital) who did not have any pain relief drugs
/medication and who regretted this decision (ie because the pain was
so bad)? By drugs I mean epidurals, mobile epidurals, pethidine etc -
(not asprin!). Would you or did you ever decide that for the next
birth you had/will have, opt to have drugs for pain relief?
many thanks again!